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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3039
   |
Posted - 2014.09.03 20:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
There has been a lot of debate and general freaking out/praising the potential changes to the Projectile Damage Profile, specifically in how it will affect Sentinels and the HMG. I wanted to find out for myself exactly how the recent changes to the Sentinels as well as the upcoming change Projectiles will change things, so I did all the maths! 
I'm not pushing any particular opinion, this is a purely factual exercise. If you feel I've made a mistake in my calculations please let me know so I can make corrections.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MqjNBElFU7Momo_meC-e0LT0SqUtkiv3zwACv3hdmBQ/edit?usp=sharing
- In a Full Hybrid Brick Tanked fit, the Amarr Sentinel will outclass every suit in all damage profiles except 2. In those two it is behind the Gallente by a small margin.
- In a Full Hybrid Brick Tanked fit, the Minmatar Sentinel will have the lowest eHP for all damage profiles except 1, in which is is about 170 eHP more than the Caldari Sentinel.
- Even in the most extreme Projectile profile, (-20/+20) the Amarr Sentinel has roughly 150 effective Armor HP more than the Caldari's effective Shield HP.
- In a full Armor Tank with no shield mods, the Amarr Sentinel has more eHP than a Caldari Sentinel with no armor mods and full Shield Tank in a -20/+20 projectile situation. Less extreme profiles widen this gap.
- Caldari Sentinels rarely stack 4 Complex Shield Extenders, so listed shield HP values will typically be lower than listed.
- While Shield Sentinels are capable of high shield recharge rates, remember that their shield HP will suffer in order to obtain that recharge
I could list out a billion more conditional statements here, but my lunch hour is about over so I'll let you look at the spreadsheet and draw your own conclusions  |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3039
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 21:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:I expect that they will go with +/- 15 route and as a lvl 5 Am Sent not worried in the slightest
That's probably a fair assessment. I think something that a lot of people forget is that even armor suits have shield HP, which means an increase to that shield resistance is going to buff your overall eHP by a portion, even if the armor eHP goes down at the same time. This makes changes less pronounced than a lot of people typically envision. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3055
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kin Cat wrote:"a lot of debate" no, it's been very one-sided
Well regardless you can look at the numbers if you like and form your own conclusions.
I've just personally heard a lot of debate back and forth for both sides, hence the "A lot of debate" line. Like I said I'm not pushing any particular viewpoint, just assembling the facts so people can come to an educated conclusion.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3056
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 21:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Its really not. All the variables cannot be seen. Thats why math says one thing but.in lab tests demonstrates something else.
That is true, but it's also impossible to calculate all of that without breaking the spreadsheet and my sanity O_O
I think what I'm personally taking away from this is "The effect of the change is less extreme than I initially thought it would be, so at this point it's best to just let it happen, see how it works out, and go from there."
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3057
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 22:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:One thing I think people are failing to account is the Proficiency bonus on projectile weapons offering another 15% to armor.
At the current profile with Prof. V you get 126.5% efficiency vs armor while at the proposed 15% you would get 132.2% efficiency. It's not huge but it does end up being roughly a 6% buff to armor damage with a 10% nerf to shield. If anything I think it'll be a buff to weapons like the CR since shields are never really above 300-400 for most players while they typically have a lot more armor.
IMO it should be - / + 5% as that would actually nerf armor damage by roughly 6% while shield would remain the same.
Well now I kinda feel embarrased for not taking proficiency into account. I'll have to update that later tonight.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3058
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 22:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Assuming I didn't **** up the math, check out the Amarr's total Hybrid eHP for the projectile profiles. -5/10 is the same as -20/20 at 1800eHP. Looks like the increase in shield resistance compensates for the loss in armor?
Overall the Amarr largely remains unchanged, whereas its pretty much a straight buff for the Caldari and Minmatar. Interesting stuff.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3059
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 22:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Assuming I didn't **** up the math, check out the Amarr's total Hybrid eHP for the projectile profiles. -5/10 is the same as -20/20 at 1800eHP. Looks like the increase in shield resistance compensates for the loss in armor?
Overall the Amarr largely remains unchanged, whereas its pretty much a straight buff for the Caldari and Minmatar. Interesting stuff. Which again for a weapon that's not supposed to be effective against shields seems logical. My biggest issue is that it has more than 200% damage buff when split currently unlike all other damage profiles that balance out at 200%.
are you referring to the -5/+10 profile it currently has?
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3061
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 22:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:
Yes.
Currently that adds up to 205% instead of 200% like all other damage profiles. I mean rail tech is -10/10....
Oh, well yeah. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn't feel that needed to be changed to a more symmetrical profile. The question is more should it be -5/+5, -10/+10, -15/+15, or -20/+20.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3061
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 22:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:
Yes.
Currently that adds up to 205% instead of 200% like all other damage profiles. I mean rail tech is -10/10....
Oh, well yeah. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn't feel that needed to be changed to a more symmetrical profile. The question is more should it be -5/+5, -10/+10, -15/+15, or -20/+20. And I think either -20/20 to match the amarr counter balance of 20/-20 or -15/+15 to make it a unique profile. -5/5 is too close to making it the all purpose weapon good against all tanks.
Going purely off the numbers, the 15% one feels the most proper to me, but that's just my opinion.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3061
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 22:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:
Yes.
Currently that adds up to 205% instead of 200% like all other damage profiles. I mean rail tech is -10/10....
Oh, well yeah. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn't feel that needed to be changed to a more symmetrical profile. The question is more should it be -5/+5, -10/+10, -15/+15, or -20/+20. And I think either -20/20 to match the amarr counter balance of 20/-20 or -15/+15 to make it a unique profile. -5/5 is too close to making it the all purpose weapon good against all tanks. Going purely off the numbers, the 15% one feels the most proper to me, but that's just my opinion. Since explosives are -20/20 I tend to agree.
At the same time, Direct Explosive damage is pretty rare, meaning that all sentinels will resist 25% of most explosive damage dealt (since it'll be splash). a -20/+20 to Projectiles would offer a direct counter to the +20/-20 of the Laser weapons, since the damage would be direct and not subject to the splash reduction.
So that's food for thought.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3061
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 23:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
LEHON Xeon wrote:
What concerns me so highly is that it makes the CR almost ineffectual at longer ranges against dual tanked or shield based suits. I don't think that it should have an imbalance of 5/10, but 20/20 is ridiculous. CR is supposed to be a mid-longer range weapon. At longer ranges, I know full well it is going to go the way of the AR against shield and dual tank suits. It will no longer be able to engage those types at longer ranges as people will simply be able to get to cover before you can even get into the armor reserves.
People can say what they want about ScR with the -20 to armor. They still eat through armor because of the extremely high initial damage.
I will begrudgingly accept 15/15, but I would rather have it 10/10.
It's that kinda the point though since Projectile weapons are supposed to be tuned to fight armor and not shields?
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3061
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 23:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Well that may be true, though I think they're looking at tweaking the ScR some because of the issues you've pointed out? I haven't been following that discussion as closely.
Even so I predict they'll go with a -15/+15 setup, so we'll just have to see how it goes post-Delta.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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